Friday, June 08, 2007

God = Alcohol?

Its been a busy two weeks. Busy being lazy! Went to Yellowstone for Memorial day weekend and had a great time. Will post photos once I get my laptop fixed.

In the meanwhile I have been reading a lot on philosophy/religion. In response to my previous post, I had lot of people complaining about my assertions that "I know a lot" about religions! True, I'm hardly a theologian. When I say "I have read about a religion", it normally means several 'Breadth First' readings of Wikipedia articles. With few books, novels and mirchi debates with friends also thrown in.

For example, at this moment I'm reading a novel called 'The Haj' (on the fate of Palestinian Arabs during the Zionist movement), have almost given up Orhan Pamuk's 'Snow' as a lost cause and keeping 'The Secrets of the Vedas' and the proverbial 'India, a History' by John Keay for some light reading. Next week I'll be starting 'A sourcebook in Indian Philosophy'. Edited by Sarvapalli Radhakrishnan, it contains excerpts from many important works in Indian Philosophy. Is this level of reading enough to form opinion about religions and gurus? Well, I think so.

Considering that I'm now a self declared supporter of anything French and that I live in California, its only natural that I should try some wine! And so I did on my Yellowstone trip with 'White Zinfandel'. It was horrible! I have always ridiculed my friends who drink 'rotten flora juices'. Now I have personal evidence that this thing really sucks. Anyway one of my friends tried to impress me with this, "Truth is bitter, so is alcohol. Hence Alcohol is truth!". Although I brushed aside that inebriated quip, it helped me to form an interesting theory about God.

This is how it works. Wine tastes really bad, period. The drunkards claim that once you drink more and more, you'll start liking it. i.e You'll like wine when you are addicted to it! Sorry guys, I'm not that stupid. Anyway, isn't that the same with ones belief in God? Anyone who has had some education or has given it a fair bit of thought can be reasonably certain that God doesn't exist. Or he can atleast never buy the cock and bull stories that our religions sell about God. The only reason most of us believe in God or claim to believe in God is because our parents and society have made us addicted to it! So I now claim God = Alcohol. Anyone in his stable state won't like either of them. Others are in 'excited' states!

Few months ago, on a trip to Patagonia Lake in Arizona, another friend of mine was trying to convince us to go boating. None of us can swim! So I offered the logical retort that "I'm not ready to drown yet!". This led to a 'philosophical' debate on "what do we have to lose if we die today?" Yesterday he returned to the topic. "Will it be so bad if we commit suicide?". In most cases, it'll indeed be bad. Even ignoring our personal loss, it will cause devastation to our parents and other loved ones. But what about orphans who have no personal bonds and in many cases lead a wretched life? Is it ok for them to commit suicide? Well, obviously myself and my friend do not believe in life after death. For us death is the end of our physical and spiritual existence.

Now the question is, does Suicide = Moksha? Come to think of it, all these Sadhus try real hard to get out of family bonds. Material possessions are anyway easy to lose. So when you have nothing left to care about, are we ready to attain Moksha? If you are familiar with the 'northening' concept (vadakkiruththaL, in Tamil, popularlised by that koperunjcholan - pisiraanthaiar story) or the Jain 'Sallekhana', aren't those folks trying to commit suicide? If so why are our laws in general and religions like Islam in particular against suicides?

While you do that assignment you can also send me answers on 'Whats wrong, if at all, with polytheism?' for extra credits.

Footnote 1: It should be obvious that I'm agnostic. But I do understand why 'Man created God!'. I have read in someone's blog that "Agnostics are atheists without ba**s". So I call myself Atheist. Now this doesn't stop me from being a Hindu. Cool, isn't it?

Footnote 2: Did you know that Mormons believe the Garden of Eden was in Jackson County, Missouri and that their founder Joseph Smith ran for US president?!!

49 comments:

Arun said...

God=Alcohol?
To equate 2 things, u shud first understand wat those 2 things are. I dont think you understand one(I dont claim I do)

Some of ur claims are too extreme and totally incorrect(i think)
"Wine tastes really bad, period." - There is a reason ppl
drink wine, think abt it first. maybe u shud say u didnt like the taste of wine.

"Anyone who has had some education or has given it a fair bit of thought can be reasonably certain that God doesn't exist." -
Not correct. Rather they are confused what to believe and what not after reasoning about. But eventually most learned do believe God exist. Just look arnd u.

"Material possessions are anyway easy to lose. " - ? Yeah, right.

"So I now claim God = Alcohol. Anyone in his stable state won't like either of them. Others are in 'excited' states!"
People want to be in exicted state(nothing is more boring than a stable state). But I agree with this stmt to some extent.

Btw on unrelated note, Google reader did unmask the * in ba**s.Did you edit it later? inconsistent copy in Reader?

Madhu said...

A Vodka shot or two would bring in more clarity to your arguments :-)

Anonymous said...

Last time it was Blasphemy ? And now God = Alcohol ? You seem to be one of the most selfish+crazy people in this world who dont really understand the simple fact that God was created by our ancestors WITH THE ONLY OBJECTIVE OF MAKING THE MANKIND LIVE IN THIS WORLD MORE PEACEFULLY. Got it Mr. I-Know-everything ? Better dont discuss about religions anymore.

Balaji said...

Arun,

>> I dont think you understand one(I dont claim I do)

True, I still don't understand Alcohol. :)

>> There is a reason ppl drink wine

Because they are addicted to it?

>> But eventually most learned do believe God exist.

I'm awaiting my own enlightenment.

Balaji said...

>> WITH THE ONLY OBJECTIVE OF MAKING THE MANKIND LIVE IN THIS WORLD MORE PEACEFULLY

I have already acknowledged this when I said, "I do understand why man created god". But what do you think will be the number of people who have lost their lives because of religions not allowing people to understand this? 1 billion won't be off the mark. Some 1b deaths for someone who doesn't exist? Guess the purpose of creating God seems to have been wasted.

FlyingHigh said...

Fear is the only reason people believe in God. So God = crazy roller coaster ride.

Also God = Giant pillow, because people belive in God coz they need comfort. And God = ermmm will try to come up with some more theories later.

:D

Shradha

Anonymous said...

It does not seem rational to voluntarily take a decision whose consequences are unknown and irreversible.

Especially so, considering the fact that human mind is fickle. For eg. one may even regret publishing something in his /her blogs, which he/she was quite sure was ok at the time of publishing.

--
Vijay

Anonymous said...

Dear,

1 billion deaths? Do you have the year-wise or atleast century-wise count supporting your statement? :-)

Even if it comes to 1 billion right from the evolution of mankind, you'll reach the same count in next few years from now, if whole world believes God doesn't exist.

Puru said...

Balaji - i think pot comes closer to God than alcohol. There are reports of ganja-yogis attaining quasi enlightenment after a whiff or two.

Balaji said...

>> you'll reach the same count in next few years from now, if whole world believes God doesn't exist.

What makes you think so?

For the whole world to believe that God doesn't exist, it has to educated. 'Educated' not just literate. I would prefer such a world anyday.

Balaji said...

Vijay,

>> It does not seem rational to voluntarily take a decision

I'm sure I'll post, if and when I start to believe in God! Every doctrine is someone's belief at somepoint, isn't it?

Anonymous said...

>> For the whole world to believe that God doesn't exist, it has to educated. 'Educated' not just literate. I would prefer such a world anyday.

Good dear. I agree & well said. I too wish the same. But, tell me frankly, dont you think the very thought of having everyone in this world 'Educated' (as per your terms), sounds like a fantasy ? Doesn't this seem to be an ideal one ? Remember, the only thing that never changes in this world is 'The Change'.

Anyway, till then, how do you take your people, your children ?

True, some religions lack strong leaders who are supposed to educate their people, about the basic funda of their religion & get them back from extremism ? And a few religious leaders/communities lack maturity too.

In my opinion, every individual / community / country gets treated by Mother Nature (didn't I say God?) they deserve.

The only successful & appealing approach is to have main focus on people as a whole & their continuous development with God/religion as its base.

Arun said...

2 things.
1) Its very sensitive to talk about religions and God with extremity unless you are an authority on the subject.
2) Congrats on getting slammed by some annymous commentors - you have become an important person :)

Read this..... said...

God or no God?

Balaji said...

God or no God?

I guess I haven't made myself clear. I have no problem with God as a symbol for Good. If people use metaphors to discipline themselves, its all very well.

But in the statements above, there is the underlying assumption that people are 'educated' enough to understand that God is just a metaphor.

When the disciple has that knowledge, he will easily dismiss notions of reserruction, messiahs, judgement days, jihad, satan, heaven, hell, god created me, god gave me a purpose to serve in this life etc.

I don't know whether this will make sense. But I feel a person can follow a religion despite having a firm conviction that God doesn't exist.

As for the arguments in that Kalam anecodote are concerned, they are too juvenile for me to answer. My whole point was that God like 'Cold' is only an assumption. And that 'educated' people are always aware of this and may no longer need such assumptions to lead a disciplined life. I certainly don't need God anymore.

GuNs said...

I just CANNOT keep my trap shut on this one, sorry. I have to bleep.

I certainly believe there is a power of nature which is beyond our comprehension right now. A mere cut in your skin divulges a wealth of information that is unknown to any science and impossible for any science to create. The universe whatever it is was NOT formed by some shitty "big bang" (Gosh, scientists...atleast try yo be more creative..."big bang"...thats the best name you could come up with for a phenomenon that created the universe?).

There are a million questions which are unanswered and a million phemonena that are unexplained. People believe there is a being or merely a force which has created (and maintains) all this utterly complex existence. People call that being/force GOD. Hence, I proudly say I believe in God. I do not know in what form/shape/state God exists but I know for sure that everything isnt as simple as high-school science tries to prove it is.

Also, I believe even if someday science was able to explain everything in the universe, I would still believe in God because whenever I have needed reassurance, I have prayed and felt that some higher power will help me if I am true to myself and dedicated to my aim. If a small stone statue or a colourful photograph of someone or something gives a man confidence to take on the big bad world, I believe there is nothing wrong in it.

Finally, I do not want (or care to) convert any atheists into believers but I am curious to know what atheists think when they are faced with the worst problems in life or even danger...or maybe a terminally ill loved one.

Oh and just for the record, I also think all mythological stories are worth reading because there is always something to learn from them however outdated the stories may be.

-PeAcE
--WiTh
---GuNs

Balaji said...

GuNs,

I agree with every word you have said but that doesn't make me a believer! Infact that doesn't make you one either! You are just calling a combination of Nature/Coincidence as God. I'm perfectly ok with that.

But do you believe in life after death, or that god sent us here with a mission etc? Seriously will God make some of us fortunate to lead a Good life while millions are subjected to unbearable suffering for no fault of theirs? Such inequalities occur because of chance and not by design.

What atheists do when things go wrong? Pray, I guess! Well, whats the difference between praying to chance/fate/time and praying to God?Afterall when people pray in places of worship, aren't they just asking for their wishes to come true?

GuNs said...

Combination of nature/coincidence as God. Hmm... the process of reproduction wherein one sperm manages to fertilize an egg and create life - is it nature or is it coincidence? I believe its both. The fact that the new life bears physical/mental resemblance to its creators - is it nature or coincidence? I believe its both . Science says it is because of the genes.Then how is it that the child isnt an EXACT replica of its parents?.

As I said there are a million things unanswered and till we find an answer to these, let me believe in a higher force. I call him God, some call it nature others call it plain coincidence. To each, his own but the next person who comes and asks me to stop believing in God gets a kick in the teeth from me.

GREAT to be back in touch with you though, mate. Carry on with the posts. Thoroughly thought-provoking and enjoyable, as you always are.

-PeAcE
--WiTh
---GuNs

GuNs said...

Ooops oops oops. One more point.

Religion is what was was written by men with long unruly hair and ascetic attire. Science is what was written by men with long unruly hair and aseptic attire. I frankly do not see any reason to trust the latter a whole lot more than the former.

-P
--W
---G

Bala's Mission: to spread darkness around him said...

"I am curious to know what atheists think when they are faced with the worst problems in life or even danger...or maybe a terminally ill loved one".

GUNS.... They would probably sit in front of a computer and try to work out the probabilities and possibilities of how wrong the things can go, i.e. 1 in 10, or 1 in 10000 or 1 in million etc. And since they do not trust the praying business, they will try to analyze and bring reason to the death of their loved ones, even if science may have no explanation of it (though I am very skeptical in believing that they have anyone who they can call loved ones as for them it will only be a coincidence to have a brother, sister, father, mother, wife, son, daughter or any other relation).

Balaji said...

2 things...

1. This praying business is a double edged sword. In almost all cases there is someone praying for someone who is struggling for life. When that person succumbs to the ailment, should we conclude that God abandoned that person or that the guy who prayed wasn't sincere?

So I would say praying is good for the guy who prays and not for the guy fighting death!

I prefer Murphy's law and 'Maktub' (Arabic - Its written!).

2. >> for them it will only be a coincidence to have a brother, sister, father, mother, wife, son, daughter or any other relation

I think there is some degree of truth to this statement!

Balaji said...

GuNs,

I'm a non-beliver not because I have read Science but because I read Philosophy! And remember Hinduism incorporates lots of Science in it.

I think Science will have a hard time fighting Hinduism. But it may work well against some of the bull-crap spread by the Abrahamic religions.

Bala's Mission: to spread darkness around him said...

"2. >> for them it will only be a coincidence to have a brother, sister, father, mother, wife, son, daughter or any other relation

I think there is some degree of truth to this statement!"

ONLY for an atheist.

It is better to learn the logic of praying, then write/talk about it. Praying for personal gains is not praying at all. Praying is much much higher and sacred than just being self centered and seeking personal gains.

If an atheist views the movie "Bruce Almighty", a lot about repercussions of having all prayers answered for everybody can become self explanatory.

You can make some people happy all of the time, all people happy some of the times, but you cannot make all people happy all of the times. This stands true for GOD too. Not that he cannot do that, but GOD will never go against the flow of the creation that the created and is sustaining.

Balaji said...

Praying for all human beings is all great in theory but whats the point? To tell ourselves that we are good at heart? I bet an atheist feels the same degree of compassion for others like those who pray to God.

Let me emphasize my point. I have no problem with people who want to believe. I'm just stating that I don't believe and that people who think thru it will know that God exists only in their belief.

ps: I cannot stand Jim Carrey except in Eternal Sunshine. So no chance of me watching Bruce Almighty!

Bala's Mission: Spread darkness around him said...

"Let me emphasize my point. I have no problem with people who want to believe. I'm just stating that I don't believe and that people who think thru it will know that God exists only in their belief".

I am not presenting my views with a motive to change anyones beliefs. I do not care what atheists do of their life. Similarly an atheist has no business to tell a believer what God is, Period (specially with the COCK and BULL theory which has no support).

And I'm not an agent for Jim Carey. My point was to highlight the theme of the movie. You keep missing the point (because you have a superiority complex and are a self centered ego maniac).

GuNs said...

Hyuk hyuk hyuk hyuk. Can we put our swords back where they belong men? [:-P]

Well Balaji, the point that Mr. Anonymous is trying to prove is that every has a different way of living his own life. No other man should question that unless it affects him negatively in some way.

For an example, if you are trying to study for your board exams and someone is playing Bhajan records at full pitch outside your house, you have right to complain. You though have no right to tell anyone that believing in a God is wrong. You cannot walk into a man's house and laugh at him because he has pictures of various Gods or a Koran or a Bible in his house.

It is their own business and everybody else should just quit trying to prove otherwise.

No offence but sometimes I think Atheists are always eager to prove to the world that they are more correct than believers. If you meet a random person and you happen to ask about his religion, a believre would merely state his religion and shut up whereas an atheist will inform you that he is an atheist and then go into an explanation and try to prove why he is correct in being one. I'm not saying every atheist does that but most I've met do.

-PeAcE
--WiTh
---GuNs

Balaji said...

>> Similarly an atheist has no business to tell a believer what God is, Period

dude, this is my blog. Believers are free to keep out!

>> (specially with the COCK and BULL theory which has no support).

which theory? You mean the alchohol one?!!!!

and btw I would like know from theists "why they claim god exists?" Not the half baked answers like "there must be something out there" or "you can't see him because you are an atheist"

>> And I'm not an agent for Jim Carey. My point was to highlight the theme of the movie. You keep missing the point.

do you have any sense of humor at all? I guess you are the missing the satire in my posts and comments.

Balaji said...

GuNs,

>> No other man should question that unless it affects him negatively in some way.

whoa? Some 1 billion deaths don't affect you in anyway?

>> You cannot walk into a man's house and laugh at him because he has pictures of various Gods or a Koran or a Bible in his house.

I think you are confusing God with Religion. I would hardly ridicle him for that because I do read Koran/Bible/Vedas myself. The worst I would tell that man is those pictures are the imagination of followers like him and that the holy books he is reading are the works of men and not God.

Bala's Mission: spread darkness around him said...

"I don't know whether this will make sense. But I feel a person can follow a religion despite having a firm conviction that God doesn't exist".

"I think you are confusing God with Religion".

"So I call myself Atheist. Now this doesn't stop me from being a Hindu".

Why in heck on earth would a person follow a religion if he does not believe in GOD. (exceptions of morons like you, claiming to be intellects are always there who claim to be an atheist and a Hindu at the same time)

And you have not proven yet that God does not exist. First prove it (not giving accounts of personal wishes/prayers not fulfilled, or any made up Cock and Bull theory) that God does not exists, and then when I'll see my belief shaken, I'll think of giving you the proof that God exists.

Natasha said...

Try red wine. I prefer that to white :)

Balaji said...

>> Why in heck on earth would a person follow a religion if he does not believe in GOD

Because religions are much more than faith. It involves a way of life, words of wisdom from philosophers, culture etc. And if one were to read and follow many religions, the merrier it is.

>> And you have not proven yet that God does not exist.

Prove something that doesn't exist?! Whoa! The best I can do is point out the flaws in others theory.

As I said in the post, "Anyone in his stable state won't like either of them. Others are in 'excited' states!". Its the people in the excited states who should tell me what they see which I can't see.

Bala's Dark World said...

"Anyone in his stable state won't like either of them. Others are in 'excited' states!". Its the people in the excited states who should tell me what they see which I can't see".

It is the other way around. You are in unstable state of mind. A believer will see GOD's presence in everything, even you. So it is you who cannot see GOD, should prove His non existence. People like you are simply outnumbered by the believers by huge ratio. So the burden of proof (of God’s non-existence) lies on you (and alikes).

“Because religions are much more than faith. It involves a way of life, words of wisdom from philosophers, culture etc. And if one were to read and follow many religions, the merrier it is”.

You first need to have faith in all the teachings of any religion that you want to follow and then comes the philosophical matter. You cannot selectively (by agreeing to what you like and not agreeing to what you do not)follow a religion. Show me any religion that is run just on the word of wisdom, without the belief in GOD’s existence. I don’t know of any. May be some one as smart as you can start one of the kind. And please do a favor to yourself. Call it a CLUB not a religion or else no more proof of your stupidity will be required. I find it really stupid of an atheist to follow a religion that ultimately preaches about the one universal GOD. May be it is not strange among the morons from the corner of India you come from.

Balaji said...

>> People like you are simply outnumbered by the believers by huge ratio. So the burden of proof (of God’s non-existence) lies on you (and alikes).

In a town of naked people, the guy who wears clothes is a fool, is it? Atheism is as old if not more than any of the religions that exist today.

>> Show me any religion that is run just on the word of wisdom, without the belief in GOD’s existence.

Hinduism, Jainism.

Bala's Dark World said...

"Atheism is as old if not more than any of the religions that exist today".

But according to facts, atheists are not even 10% of the worlds population. So who gives a shit what atheists say unless they have some concrete facts (proof of non existance of GOD) to catch any believers attention.

Hinduism & Jainism are religions that run just on the word of wisdom, without the belief in GOD’s existence. That is news to me. Oh wait. May be the Madrasi version of these two religion are what you may be talking about.

Balaji said...

>> atheists are not even 10% of the worlds population

????!!!!!! Only a handful of religions command more following than this.

>> That is news to me.

It figures.

Bala's Black World said...

"Only a handful of religions command more following than this".

I believe we are talking about the believers (of all religions on one side) and the not so noticable non-believers on the other. 100:1.

>> That is news to me.

"It figures".

It is still news to me as Hinduism had got the most number of Gods and Godesses worshipped by the Hindus (around 33 crores). If Madrasis have come up with another sect. of HInduism where they talk about philosophy without God, then I have to keep up with the developments in Hinduism.

Balaji said...

With due respect to you sir, I cannot drop to this level. Lets keep the discussion at a higher plane.

>> he not so noticable non-believers on the other. 100:1

Why are we worried at all about the numbers? Even if its just me against the whole humanity, I'll stand by my point (as long as I am convinced about its correctness).

And btw 10% is not 100:1. (ok, I know it was a typo!)

>> Hinduism had got the most number of Gods and Godesses

Sorry dude! You seem to have no idea about Hinduism. (I know many non-Hindus have difficulties understanding Hindu Gods).

Like any other ancient religions, Hindus worship many aspects of nature (sun, planets, water, fire etc), animals, factors that are outside the control of human beings (like Ganesha being the lord of Good luck etc) and many other 'forces' like wealth, power, education etc. And since Hindus aren't controlled by any dogma or messiahs, they celebrate their Gods by imagining them in human form.

Even the Hindu philosophy has moved from Polytheism to Monotheism and eventually to Monism. I was myself born in a family following Advaita philosophy proposed by Adi Sankara. Although Advaita is not atheistic, its view on god (called non-dualism) is that man (atman) and the supreme being (paramatman) are the one and the same. Humans only need to realize this to attain Moksha. This philosophy almost borders on atheism.

And you can speak to any Jain friend of yours to understand how little Jainism concerns itself with God.

If you want you can also read this article on Hinduism which I wrote several years ago and have also pointed here before.

Bala's Dark World said...

So I believe long ago some people decided to cut off from mainstream Hinduism and create their own sect. (i.e. Adi Sankara, who nobody knows beyond south india, forget about the world and Jains and may be some more. I hope they were not Ram Rahim kind of sects.) But this does not make all the majority Hindus and the main stream Hindu religion go by their philosophy. Main stream Hindus still follow Hinduism that believes in God's existence.

Atma and Pramatama theory is not wrong. In one of my comments I have said that a true believer will see God in everything, even you, as God (Parmatama) exists in all of us. All we need to do is realise Him with in. But saying that I and God are one and the same thing is totally absurd (unless you have realized the God 'parmatama' with in).

And your standing by your point makes no difference to the whole world unless you have facts to prove your point.

I'm not reading your views on any matter you may have written as your and my views point to the opposite. Following para is a part taken from a well written aritcle on the issue.

The subject of design has been one that has been explored in many different ways. For most of us, simply looking at our newborn child is enough to rule out chance. Modern-day scientists like Paul Davies and Frederick Hoyle and others are raising elaborate objections to the use of chance in explaining natural phenomena. A principle of modern science has emerged in the 1980s called "the anthropic principle." The basic thrust of the anthropic principle is that chance is simply not a valid mechanism to explain the atom or life. If chance is not valid, we are constrained to reject Huxley's claim and to realize that we are the product of an intelligent God.


You can google the 'issue' and you will find countless articles on the pro design and anti chance theory. Also try reading on real purpose of praying, not material praying or praying for short term goals. That's it. I'm leaving you with this. No more time waste with you or your points. If you come up with something concrete about GOD's non existence, put it up here and you shall be famous. In the mean time, May GOD bless you too.

Balaji said...

>> Adi Sankara, who nobody knows beyond south india, forget about the world and Jains and may be some more.

Don't advertise your ignorance like this dude. Adi Sankara is the original Shankaracharya (8th Century) who established mutts in four corners of India. The mutt in Kanchi and the Madhwacharya school are their offshoots. There can hardly be an Hindu who doesn't know Adi Sankara. And mind you unlike most religions of the world, no Hindu attaches divine attributes to him. He is just treated as a saint/guru/philosopher. Advaita is one of the Vedantas of Hinduism.

>> not reading your views on any matter you may have written as your and my views point to the opposite.

yeah, read things that only suit you. that'll do you a lot of good.

>> you will find countless articles on the pro design and anti chance

and you think I haven't read or thought about them. anyway thanks for the 'Paul Davies and Frederick Hoyle' suggestion. will read them. but I have already expressed my abhorrence for the "there must be something out there" kind of theories.

www.gotquestions.org said...

People claim to not believe in God because it is “not scientific” or “because there is no proof.” The true reason is that once people admit that there is a God, they also must realize that they are responsible to God and in need of forgiveness from God. If God exists, then we are accountable for our actions to Him. If God does not exist, then we can do whatever we want without having to worry about God judging us. I believe that is why evolution is so strongly clung to by many in our society - to give people an alternative to believing in a Creator God. God exists and ultimately everyone knows that He exists. The very fact that some attempt so aggressively to disprove His existence is in fact an argument for His existence.

Read more? www.gotquestions.org

Balaji said...

And what if the person (like me) voluntarily owns up his responsibility. Infact I would argue otherwise. It is those cowards who are not ready to own up responsibility for their actions and more importantly their decisions, who need God.

GuNs said...

Well I dont really like to get into heated discussions on blogs so I quit when the temperatures soar.

I am disappointed in one sentence of your reply though, mate. "Its my blog". I know it is but if you are not open to discussion on your opinions, please turn off the comments feature. We'll get the message. Leaving it on means you are open to discussion and that is what people are doing (though I dont quite like the tone used my Mr. Anonymous here and also at times by you in replying to him).

BTW 1 billion deaths? What billion deaths? Riots, religious wars? Its kind of immature to think that these were caused by people only because they believe in God. These were all clearly caused by people who were stupid enough to be motivated by some extra-stupid people who claimed to be religious leaders. I believe in God but I dont care a damn about what some sadhu on a TV channel or the pujari at the temple says if it is meant to incite hatred towards someone else.

I have just about heard of Adi Shankaracharya (read a book about him when I was a kid) but wouldnt care more about him than I would about any of the above. I would support both of you on this. Shankaracharya is a well known person (thats all I can call him, really) but not well known enough to be known by a majority of Hindus.

-PeAcE
--WiTh
---GuNs

Balaji said...

:)

Yeah, I myself felt awkward saying "this is my blog"! But Mr. Anonymous had said that I had no business saying what believers should do. Don't know how else I can respond to that.

You know ofcourse that I allow anyone to comment and also reply patiently to most of them. Even in this Mr. Anonymous case, I merely deleted his obscene comments until he went to other peoples blog and bitched them.

I think the tone of the argument depends on either party. When you get "who the heck is Adi Sankara" while discussing religion and Philosophy, its difficult to keeps one cool. How can one possibly discuss Hindu Philosophy with someone who doesn't know Adi Sankara?

True, billions of deaths did not occur because of existence or otherwise of God. It occurred because people aren't ready to accept that 'their' God is as much a figment of their imagination as the other guys is.

God is in You, you arrogant fool said...

The rise of atheistic publications definitely has raised the question, "Does God exist?" While many claim the non-existence of God, they fail to give an "intelligent" answer.

To say God does not exist, one must first have "full knowledge". Therefore, it is arrogant to claim God doesn't exist. Who knows 100% of all things in the universe (except Bala)? Because no one has complete knowledge, the claim that God doesn't exist is severely lacking.

On the other hand, one only needs limited knowledge to say God exists. For instance, God reveals himself in nature. When we look at creation, the thought of a creator has to cross our minds. Just as a painting cannot exist unless there is a painter, creation must have a creator.

from USA Today....

Balaji said...

>> On the other hand, one only needs limited knowledge to say God exists.

???!!! Fools paradise, huh?

>> For instance, God reveals himself in nature.

Why not worship nature itself? Why give hypothetical reasons to it.

Anyway in the original post, I had said, "I'm agnostic. But I read in someone's blog that agnostics are atheists without ba**s. Hence I call myself Atheist".

Besides there is a difference between atheists in Abrahamic and Dharmic religions. In Hinduism, I would claim questioning God is a pre-requiste to even understand its philosophy. Did our philosophers and saints go that far without asking the same questions, I'm asking now?

"I'm stupid hence I follow what elders say" is one way of looking at God. "I'm learning and when I have learn't enough, I may be able to appreciate what elders say. Until then I'll go by what I have learn't." is another way.

So, in the unlikely event that I believe in God someday, I would proudly look back at this phase of my life as one of intense learning.

ps: If you don't mind, here's a sincere advice for you. Your level of education and understanding seems to be inadequate to indulge in religious self questioning. But I appreciate your effort in standing up for your beliefs. I have been through that phase long ago in my life. Please continue to expand your knowledge. It remains to be seen, as you learn more, whether you are still able to hold on to your beliefs or abandon some of them as I have done. I feel either course will do you no harm. Good luck.

Good that you borrowed some Ba**s said...

Professor: Science Proves God's Existence
Proof Comes With 'Hard Nose Physics', Professor Says


PS. No one gives a f*@k in your believing in GOD or not. Just stop f*@kin telling others what you think about them believing in "Him".

Balaji said...

Thanks for the links.

>> No one gives a f*@k in your believing

And yet you have spent several hours in the last few weeks reading and critiquing every word I say. Thanks dude.

A guy who posts as anonymous talks abouts ba**s. Global warming, I guess!

Jesus Loves You, Even if you are a Stupid Madrasi said...

The Strong and Modified Weak Anthropic Principles: Scientific Proof there is a Creator

PS. I haven’t seen any post on any blog ridiculing an atheist. My point of critiquing you is not that you are a not a believer, but that you are ridiculing the believers... Personally, I don’t give a damn about what you believe or don’t believe in.

Balaji said...

>> I haven’t seen any post on any blog ridiculing an atheist.

well, maybe you should blog yourself since you have so much to say on the topic.

jesus loves me?! ok, I now get what all this campaign was about. I'm stopping the discussion right here, right now.